We’re moving on to the next myth Simmons looks to debunk: “Myth no. 3: Statistically, Wilt crushed Russell.” And the quote above appears in the first paragraph of this myth-busting; how’s that for an inaccurate start? I’ll meet Bill halfway: a rebound can trigger the fast-break (especially with a rebounder who can pass the ball well), and of course, offensive rebounds can be directly put back for points. I will grant that we didn’t track offensive rebounds back then, but I’d wager good money that even in the sixties, 1) the great majority of rebounds were defensive and 2) most of those didn’t trigger a fast-break. I have nothing to bolster this opinion with, so draw your own conclusions on this point. My larger point is that rebounds aren’t offensive stats, which I assumed even casual fans knew.
While we’re on the subject of rebounds, Russell was a great rebounder of course and, as Simmons suggests, in the same zip code as Chamberlain. But Wilt was in a much nicer house.
Both men averaged 22 rebounds per game; Wilt 22.9, Russell 22.5. I don’t think they were this close in reality. Let’s consider a few things:
- Wilt played four seasons after Russell retired, from 1970-73. While Russell started his entire career in a very inaccurate shooting era, Wilt played three plus seasons (just 12 games in 1970) when teams shot the ball more accurately. Compare 57-59 with 70-73 to see what I’m getting at:
This table doesn’t account for some things, but this is just to give you an idea. From 1957-59, there were 62, 72, and 69 rebounds to be had per game – Russell’s three years without Wilt in the league. From 1970-73, Wilt’s three-plus seasons without Russell in the league, there were 53, 49, and 50 rebounds to be had. Anyone else think Wilt would have had more rebounds if he was exactly the same age as Russell?
- Russell was 0.1 rebounds better than his career average (22.6 from 22.5) from 1960-69, Wilt’s first ten seasons. During that same period, Wilt was 1.4 rebounds better (24.3 from 22.9).
- You have seen how really big guys don’t always make the best rebounders, right? Where they have a size and strength advantage on one hand, they are slower to react and move on the other, right? The best rebounders I’ve watched are Moses Malone, Larry Bird, Lafayette Lever, Dennis Rodman, Charles Oakley, Charles Barkley, Hakeem Olajuwon, Jayson Williams, Ben Wallace, and Zach Randolph. Not one of these guys was seven feet tall (despite Hakeem’s height listing), but they all had quick feet and reaction time to the ball. They were usually the first player off the floor when the shot rebounded and could jump repeatedly in one spot, like a jump rope exercise. In the films I’ve seen, Bill Russell looks bodily like Dennis Rodman – same height, same long arms – and it’s easy to imagine him dominating the glass in the way that Rodman often did. But in the games they played against each other, the larger and presumably slower Chamberlain was five rebounds better than Russell in 142 matchups. (28.7 RPG for Wilt, 23.7 RPG for Russell)
This came after Bill mentioned Russell’s and Wilt’s head-to-head points/rebounds averages. But Bill came ready with a devastating counter:
Wilt’s record against Russell: 58-84
Russell’s record against Wilt: 84-58
You see, in Simmonsland, all stats are player stats. Points, rebounds, assists, blocks, wins, losses, championships – these can all be achieved by individual players. But the hilarious part of the W/L stat above: it’s listed twice. All Simmons had to do was run the stat out there like this:
Russell’s record against Wilt: 84-58
And it means exactly the same thing as listing it twice. Was he trying to give Russell credit twice? (actually, he probably was)
But Simmons hasn’t emptied his pistol yet. Next, he urges us to check out their playoff numbers:
Wilt: 160 games, 22.5 points, 24.5 rebounds, 4.2 assists, 47% FT, 52% FG
Russ: 165 games, 16.2 points, 24.9 rebounds, 4.7 assists, 60% FT, 43% FG
And after showing these lines off, Simmons says:
“Hmmmmmmm. Russell’s numbers jumped and Wilt’s numbers dipped dramatically when there was money on the line, even though Wilt was routinely his team’s number one scoring option and Russ was number four or five.”
That passage is chock full of wrong. Let's start with the first part of that quote:
Russell’s numbers jumped and Wilt’s numbers dipped dramatically
That is one (highly skewed) way to look at it. If Bill was talking about only scoring average, he’d be right about Wilt’s dipping dramatically (as far as it goes), but it’s just wrong to say Russell’s numbers jumped. We’ll start with Russell:
16.2 points (up from career average of 15.1)
24.9 rebounds (up from career average of 22.5)
4.7 assists (up from career average of 4.3)
60% FT (up from career mark of 56%)
43% FG (down from career mark of 44%)
Does this look like numbers jumping up to you? Yes, Russell did improve in all but one category, but the only mark which looks like a big jump was rebounds, and basketball fans are well aware that shooting accuracy goes down in the playoffs; why wouldn’t Russell’s rebounds go up?
Now let’s look at Wilt:
22.5 points (down from career average of 30.1)
24.5 rebounds (up from career average of 22.9)
4.2 assists (down from career average of 4.4)
47% FT (down from career mark of 51%)
52% FG (down from career mark of 54%)
Like Russell, Wilt’s numbers are in the same ballpark as his regular season numbers except for rebounds (which we just discussed) and points; but there is a very specific reason Wilt’s scoring didn’t drop as much as you might think.
As Simmons himself points out, Wilt Chamberlain changed his style of play over time. He was receptive to this change as suggested by Coach Alex Hannum before the 1967 season. This style of play resulted in Wilt 2.0, the do-it-all center fixated (in often ludicrous fashion) on assisting teammates’ baskets. Wilt 1.0 was wired to score every point in sight. (Wilt 1.0 played in 52 playoff games, Wilt 2.0 played in 108) I have a better way to illustrate a player’s playoff contributions – focus on each season instead of the aggregate.
I have a philosophical question here, and my frame of reference for it is the 1962 season and playoffs. This was the year Wilt averaged 50 points during the season and “only” 35 in the playoffs. And my question is this: is your team really hurting getting 35 per game as opposed to 50? I’m not asking people to break down the 1962 season and playoffs to look at the question exactly – I just mean in the general sense.
Let me explain the table. Numbers in red are stats that dropped significantly, numbers in green are the stats that rose significantly. The numbers in bold are the stats Wilt led the playoffs in, therefore sometimes a red or green stat will be in bold. (How I defined significant: 4+ PPG, 2+ RPG, 2+ APG, 2+ FG% points, 4+ FT% points)
As you can see, Wilt’s scoring and FG shooting dropped significantly on six and nine occasions respectively. His rebounding only dropped significantly once, his assists four times. His FT% was all over the place: it dropped significantly six times and rose significantly three times. Not surprising that Wilt couldn’t maintain consistency at the line, of course. Other significant gains: rebounding six times, assists twice, and FG% twice. Wilt was, overall, a little worse in the playoffs than in the season, but again – in reference to my earlier question, Wilt was worse to the tune of: 33 PPG, 35 PPG, 29 PPG, 28 PPG, 23 RPG, 6.5 APG, 57.9 FG%, 54.5 FG%, 56.3 FG%, 55.2 FG%. The standards he created were so great that those numbers were all significant drops compared to his season stats that year. I’ll admit that my methods are by no means comprehensive, but they’re more detailed than Simmons’ methods.
Let’s give Russell the same treatment:
In general, Russell was a little better during the playoffs than he was during the season, and Wilt was a little worse (owing in part to some stratospheric regular season standards). Russell certainly deserves credit for his playoff performance, but it is inaccurate to say that Russell’s numbers “jumped” or that Wilt “dipped dramatically” in the playoffs.
Next time: we'll discuss the second half of the "Russell's numbers jumped" quote.
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ReplyDeleteHello! I've really enjoyed reading this so far... please keep up the good work. I've been reading Simmons book just recently and while it is very entertaining, he is very biased and what shocks me the most - gets easy facts wrong. For instance in his Russell vs. Wilt argument: Russell came late into the 56-57 league because of the Olympics, not military. Also right after that, he says that the first signs of trouble come in 1962-63, when Sharman retires... Sharman retired in 1961! There was a full season in between! I have more of these along with explanations of Wilt's PPG drops (like in 1962 where his coach moved him from low post 50 PPG player to the high post 35 PPG, defensive anchor to help the team.) I was wondering if you had an email address so I could pass them on to you...
ReplyDeleteM Nolan, thanks for sharing. And if you (or anyone) want to share more "Bill Simmons is a lazy, careless hack" notes, here is my contact email:
ReplyDeletejrewing.theory@gmail.com
And I'll be posting my email on the main page soon.
I accidentally ended up on this page while looking up Russell vs. Wilt stats. I couldn't read past a couple paragraphs, but just wanted to say that I'm sorry you've spent so much time on this blog, and I hope you find a productive outlet for your talents.
ReplyDeleteSimmon's relies on assumptions, distortions, and falsehoods in order to avoid 3 salient FACTS about Wilt's dominance in the post-season.
ReplyDelete1) Wilt has the the highest post-season T.O.P. in NBA history. The T.O.P. is a combination of points, rebounds, and assists. Chamberlain has a T.O.P. of 51.2 (e.g., 22.5 points, 24.5 rebounds, 4.2 assists) which makes him the ONLY NBA player to have a playoff T.O.P. of 50 or more.
2) Wilt led the league in scoring in his first 7 seasons and his teams went to the playoffs in 6 of those seasons. In 6 post-season appearances, Chamberlain averaged 32.8 points, 26.6 rebounds, and shot .505 from the field. No player in NBA history had a post-season averaging 32 points and 26 rebounds, yet Wilt averaged that over the course of 6 post-seasons.
3) In his 7th post-season appearance, Wilt won his 1st NBA title with the 76ers. In 7 post-season appearances, Chamberlain averaged 30.4 points, 27.0 rebounds, 4.5 assists, and shot .515 from the field. No player in NBA history had a post-season averaging 30 points, 27 rebounds, and 4.5 assists, yet Wilt averaged that over the course of 7 post-seasons.
Phil C nice stats I'm a Huge Chamberlain fan so I am biased and I agree with you wholeheartedly. Good job gathering Wilts stats!!!!??
ReplyDeleteThough Russell was great He wasnt Wilt. Bill , You cant compare stats because Wilts are better, You cant compare wins because its a team game. If Wilt played with 6 hall of famers on the Celtics and Russell played with the Sixers, during the same period of time there would be little or no discussion of the matter.
ReplyDeleteI too think Wilt was better than Russell, but it's not as big a difference as all of you are suggesting. Wilt also had great teammates (Greer Cunningham Jackson Arizin then West Baylor Goodrich with Lakers). Russ won titles in 11 of 13 seasons, the last as a Player Coach. He won 5 MVP awards, was never out of the top 4, and if there was a defensive MVP award then he would have won it virtually every year (1st in Career Def Win Shares. Yes it's a team game, but 84-58 is not nothing.
ReplyDeleteI have always found this so-called 'argument' funny. SOLUTION: Give 'truth-serum' to anyone that has EVER been an NBA GM and tell them that they are starting a team, the draft is now taking place, and the 2 players available are Wilt and Russell. "Uh, Mr. GM, which one would you like to select"? ANSWER: 100% would select Wilt. Most dominant player in the history of sports. Period. How many rules did the NBA need to change to slow Russell down? Sounds almost funny when you think about having to sit in a smoke-filled room and figure out how to slow this Russell guy down, eh? LOL. C'mon. Don't ever get in a 'debate' with anyone from the New England area on this topic (unless of course they are willing to submit to the 'truth-serum' requirement). Wilt was a D1 high-jumper for crying out loud. Further, there are verified stories of him playing on the California beach volley ball courts well into his 50's. Ex professional players (guys who were world-class 'spikers') were asked about what it's like going up for a spike vs. Wilt. Their answer? Uh, we don't even bother, we just get out of his way. We are talking about 'retired' volley ball players who are maybe early 30's deathly afraid of a guy near his mid-50's. I could go on and on. Set of Conan The Barbarian. Wilt n Arnold working out during some 'down-time' on set. Wilt puts a bunch of 50lb plates on his chest and bangs out a bunch of sit-ups/crunches. Says to Arnold "Your turn". Arnold: "Are you crazy, I'm not even going to try that". World Class, greatest 'strong-man/body-builder' ever can't hang with Wilt (again, when Wilt was into his 50's). Please. There only ever was, and will only ever be one Goliath. He's ours, he was/is the greatest that ever lived. RIP big fella.
ReplyDeleteExcept of course for the two GMs that decided they had to trade Wilt Chamberlain, of course...
DeleteBTW, found this interesting blurb on a volleyball site regarding Wilt. EVERYONE that ever came in contact with him had similar stories about his physical dominance. This one is actually pretty funny stuff, but you can sense how respected he was in the volley ball community: http://volleyball.org/people/wilt_chamberlain.html
ReplyDeleteAlthough I agree with most of the wilt acalades. I'm sorry but you can not over look championships. I sorry but you can't. I'm not saying Russell was better but it has to be considered that it's a lot closer than what I'm reading. You have a great qb like dan Marino who , when retired, owned most of the stats records in the NFL. But when a discussion about the greatest qb of all time comes up, poor dannny is not ever in the discussion. Fair or unfair, that's the way it is. And in football, even though the qb is number one, your talking about 22 different starters. Basketball only five. My point being, a player in basketball has more influence on team success than one player on a football team. Again, I'm not saying Russell was better, but I am saying he deserves a little more respect than I'm reading here.
ReplyDeletePs. I have always hated the celtics
I’ve now read the top posted articles on y search engine for “Russell v.Chamberlain” bad all four writers try really really hard to prove with numbers and stats that Wilt was the better player. This amateur sports fan did a little research of his own and can with exact measurement sum up those four professional writers’ opinions with two words: BULL SHIT! Instead of inverting and distorting the stats to suit their argument, I suggest a really simple, straight forward method of comparing these two hoop Demi-gods - compare the season averages for points, rebounds, assists and FG % (sadly the NBA did not record blocked shots, Russell’s favorite maneuver was blocking an opponents shot by directing it like an outlet pass to a teammate (Cousy) for a quick fast break) but regardless, Russell and Chamberlain met eight times in the playoffs (1962, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68 & 69). I did a simple comparison of the head to head stat lines for each play off match up then compared those stats with the player’s stats for that particular season. The results show pretty darn clearly he better player was. Here’s this amateur’s findings:
ReplyDeleteCAREER STATS:
Player. Scoring Avg. Rebounds. Assists. FG %
Russell. 15.1. 22.5. 4.3. 44%
Chamberlain. 30.1. 22.9. 4.4. 54%
Head To Head Play Off Stats:
Player. Scoring Avg. Rebounds. Assists. FG %
Russell. 14.7 24.7. 5.0. 43%
Chamberlain. 26.1. 22.7. 4.2. 45%
So while Russell actually increased upon his career averages during eight head ot head plat off match ups, Cha,Verlaine actually saw his stats DECLINE in every single category .... NUFF SAID. Now go write another “professional” article about how LeBron James is better than MJ. LeBron’s a great player, dont get me wrong, but so was Larry Legend, Magic, Tim Duncan etc etc. But sorry, LeBron has not yet, nor likely will ever, belong in the same paragraph as Michael Jordan.
Thems my two cents and I’m sticking to em.....